This article leaves folks thinking their 45 or 9mm or single action is excellent bear medicine the fact is they are just poor at best. fresh kill 1994 watch online. State officials have issued a permit allowing a rancher to kill P-45, a mountain lion believed to be responsible for the recent killings of livestock near Malibu, Calif. (National Park Service via AP) I am also, by trade, a Professional Land Surveyor, so my work hours are often spent in the remote wilderness areas. into camp look for a meal in the ice chest. An exceedingly interesting question. Hunting, The most significant differences between a jaguar and a mountain lion are their size, speed, and bite force. Speaking of cougars, check out this video from Barcroft TV. 1988 a Montana Fish and Game Officer utilized same handgun to dispatch a Grizzly This gun is horrible to carry full time when it must be out of site sometimes!! 9mm is acceptable against two legged foes, but with an angry mountain lion you want something with some real punch to it. Carry to fit your states wild life? Cue the whining about how much of a shame it is to kill such a majestic animal. When it comes to wheel guns should they be ported? 300 grains is on the low end for 50ae. He agreed the animal was huge. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? We now have on earth more humans than were ever born since the beginning of mans evolution and with the masses of excess pollution we have already destroyed the planet we are living on. The key is putting the projectile in the right spot. Both are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game in the boonies. The 357 magnum is able to kill a bear much better then the 9mm and the 38 special even though they actually shoot the same bullets. Once you get over 300gr. Look it up. Answer (1 of 12): There's a lot of variables in play with this question and a 9mm pistol round is NOT a good round to take down a large predator with. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. As far as I am concerned the best handgun for a person is one they are familiar and competent with. I shot a 1000+ lb. With 158-grain bullets moving at nearly 800 fps, this probably represents along with the 9mm Luger the lower end of the spectrum, as far as a defensive bear gun goes. That being said I would never recommend a .22 for bear protection or hunting. Mountain lion attacks on humans, however, are rare in Colorado, with Colorado Parks and Wildlife counting fewer than 20 over the past 30 years. One would shoot the bear with a 22 rimfire: often a single shot, while his partner would harpoon the bruin to prevent it sinking. Mine rides in a Diamond D Guides Choice model. The 357 mag is much better then the 40S&W as well. Fly fishing in AK, and knocking around the woods I often carry a stainless charter target bulldog in 44 special. Not only is a 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum, or even out performing the 44 magnum. Unless you are an expert hand-gunner with tons of real world experience.. carry a rifle and have the pistol as backup. Very interesting. The lion ignored the adults in the group and went right for the children. 8gr 800-X will put some lead into anyones pencil. To purchase a sidearm for bear country on GunsAmerica, click here. I would wantShortFast out of the holster.and powerful. You could get pretty close to a semi-auto .454 Casull if you had a .440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle. I heard that some hikers on Mt. I carry a 10 round 9mm when bow and black powder hunting in Black Bear country. Laboratory work several days after the attack would have indicated rabies. Your bear protection gun is never going to be your regular carry gun, no long afternoons firing box after box it is a single purpose tool. I hope that you had a good camera and a long lens to shoot it. Good article. The examination of the animal, believed to be about 3 years old, suggests it was an opportunistic predator and not starving because deer, its natural prey, had been over-hunted, as . Does that mean my woods gun a .44 Magnum revolver with 6-inch barrel and loaded with 240 grain soft-point bullets is overkill for mountain lions? Is it a powerhouse, as a bear cartridge? Im not a hunter, but a hiker. Do you have a rare 5-shot model, or just down to your last five cartridges for the photo shoot? Its often with me in bear country and has made several trips to Alaska. Not being a cougar hunter, didnt pay much attention to it. Spent half my working career in Alaska, hunted, fished, hiked. 4 barrel, all stainless steel, adjustable sights and under 1.5 pounds. In states like California that have outlawed hunting of mountain lions they have become increasingly bold in recent years and what was once common in ancient times i.e. The bullet entered at the last rib on the right side and ripped through diagonally and lodged in the base of the neck on the left side. Does Bear Spray work?.. The big cats are thin skinned and not that hard to kill. I believe he used a 9mm. However, two of those incidents resulted in fatalities. and I usually see a grizzly when I hunt almost within sight of Cody Wy. According to CPW, Colorado is home to between 3,000 and 7,000 mountain lions. . He normally carries a .44 Magnum but opted for the 9mm that day. Ive chronoed this load at 1325fps, its kickass on Elk. My other handgun, my day-to-day gun, is a well-worn Smith & Wesson Model 36, in .38 Special. I like the S&W 460 as well. and driving a rig your not in the Alaskan brush. Had that sow felt threatened, I wouldnt have known what hit me. The lion can then be shot and removed, or tranquilized and transplanted at least 300 miles (480 km) away. Absolutely. I just wander where his Pistol and the rigging went to. Mace or a .45 Colt? Loaded with good ammunition, either of these Smith & Wesson .44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine. Picture yourself on your back with a bear in your face and you trying to fight him off with one hand and reaching for your gun. The spent shell casings can end up lost in the grass, sagebrush, bushes, woods, However, the realization that you might have to use one to defend against a couple-hundred pounds of teeth and fangs doesnt exactly make one feel like Zorro; in fact, I looked down at it and said to myself:This is gonna hurt. Yes, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear. Its also probably a one or two shot deal, so firepower is irrelevant. I saw one 200 yards from my home while deer hunting several years ago. Something doesnt fit here. the reason to own a .38/.357 revolver. What we can do is provide a framework to understand what average conditions might look like, and whether those are reasonably viable for a shot from the average shooter to harvest a cougar or mountain lion in the fewest number of shots possible, i.e., ethically. Made me wonder Dont these manufacturers know that hard cast is more effective? Perhaps they were just given that name to sound scary, but are really made for 2 legged predators? I recently read the account of a man in Oregon who survived a black bear attack. The free enterprise system in Africa works for big game, and for the villagers. I prefer to carry a .460 Roland built on .45 Colt ACP 1911 chassis. Certain poisons meant to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain lions. Something else. Alfredo Gonzalez, 60 . HP ammo may be great for two legged predators, not so much for those with fourand large teeth! Speaking of the 10mm, theres no mention. If one comes onto my property, its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless of course in self defense. I have three loads that I shot, 200 gr. When it comes to the coastal brown bear, thats a whole different animal. I wasnt sure if the .357 was really optimal for bear spanking as my father, a hunter and 23 year US Army Combat Veteran would say and couldnt bring myself to splurge on either 10mm or something in the .44 magnum ranges. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. There are some real men out there who have seen a bear in a zoo and have shot their 500 SW 4 times 6 years ago. In any case, the uncle deserves commendation for shooting straight in a tense situation. The cougar chased Kyle Burgess, 26 . Your .357 magnum should be fine and easier to get off a second shot on target. Winchester lists their .410 GA slugs as 1800 feet per second. Are they prudent, not for me. SCCY DVG-1 Review. Now, the black bear is generally speaking a rather docile creature, and most of the time it will make every attempt to run away from man. The 454 would probably be better and I did have a 500 S&W in 4 inch but as heavy as it was I figured it was easier to carry a 12 ga pump on a sling and let someone carry out the meat while I protected them. Mountain Lions have been known to take out horses, cattle, sheep . The 357-magnum case is just a bigger capacity shell able to provide much better performance. I can shoot 100rds of 480 in a day, that equals two loads of .44 mag or one shot of casull and none of the 500. He saved them both, barely, with his .338 rifle. Just stay away from me because you are just asking for trouble. Local dog hunters said lion are easy to kill and they use a 22lr pistol. Mountain lions will usually stay within their own habitats and hunt for their own food sources. A good friend used to go to Alaska to fish. Tracy Ross 3:00 AM MST on Jan 1, 2023. This may not have been a great time for firearm but it begs the questions: (1) What's a good caliber to stop a cat at 3 - 20 yds, and (2) what kind of round (solid, hollow point)? It was the first handgun I ever purchased.. Really. Carry a 5 S&W 500 loaded with 700 gr hardcast from Ballistic Supply. wild boars Yes I admit this was a freak happening. Its lack of weight had me cringing at first, expecting some wrist-wrenching recoil, but I was pleasantly surprised with the manageability of the K6s. A shotgun with buck shot would be handy if it is in your yard. Then it rolled over and started walking. He is a hard-core gun guy and he agrees with me on cartridges, guns and bullets. A Sacramento Bee investigation revealed in 2017 that thanks to that language, Californians have killed far more mountain lions since Proposition 117 passed then they did before.. Some dogs work together well enough to make a cat figure it's best to run but rarely will a pack of dogs be able to kill a cougar. Something I doubt the 500 or 460 blunderbuss allows. . Most sheep hunts have included bear encounters. The Southern California man charged with shooting and killing a protected mountain lion this summer has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and was ordered to serve 240 hours of community service in . A California man has been sentenced to 30 days in jail and other penalties for the killing of a protected mountain lion over the summer. May 12, 2018. This makes cougars great jumpers, able to leap from the ground 18 feet up into a tree. In the middle of our camps we kept a ready shotgun on a small folding table so if a quick exit from the tents was called for, everyone at least know where that one was. If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. None of the planned gun laws have any impact on bolt-action rifles as far as I'm aware (except perhaps limiting magazine capacity if it has one), and to be extra safe you could get a bolt-action rifle without a detachable magazine. .38 special have been a huge disappointment for me. Photo Courtesy: Cork Graham. 3. feral dogs 44 mag or most any other caliber in those ranges if the person using it knows how to shoot. They did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a 357. Mountain lion attacks often allow the victims a bit of time to access weapons. You will only have only one chance to prove fluffy wont kill you. Hunting and slaughtering are hardly a comparison. Bears do not like facing off with skunks because their nose and eyes are two of their more sensitive parts. In fact, a shot from a .357 caliber revolver or a shotgun at close range is more likely to kill a mountain lion than an accidental discharge . I agree, a 9mm is not something I would trust. That is your choice. I have a short barrel S&W 629 that Ken Kelly modified. I had never shot a bear before , so I decided to put it down with a shot to the next. The Interior Grizzlies are not like your fat on salmon Brownies. I often have to carry elk quarters out in the Bitteroot mountans, which is heavy populated with wolves, grizzly, black bear, and moose, all of which I have had numerous too close for comfort encounters where Ive had to draw down. There are many reviews of this caliber online. For small game, a 38 Spcl. If he does not already carry a firearm then he should. be utilized for small game hunting: rabbit, squirrel, and grouse. I almost needed a new clean pair of drawers. Inside the house, condo, apartment, or indoors such should A large bore hot load can be a challenge to control and difficult for multiple shots, while something like a 10mm in a good semi-auto allows for powerful rounds and multiple shots rapidly fired on target for many. Carry the biggest freaking Gun you can shoot very very well ! you spent 6 weeks on the road system not the boondocks If you are in the boondocks whatever that means? The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. . Owing to circumstances at their place, I wasnt able to go. might be ok for a black bear, but will likely piss off a coastal bear. Black bear common senseoptions: He makes a grizzly look like a cub. Methinks your anti-Judge/Governor bias is showing. Regarding your story about the two men from California who discharged bear spray in their hotel room in their haste to try it out forcing the hotel to gut and refinish the room entirely, of course after evicting the two Californians. More is always better and the bullet is the key. A neighbor, 1/2 mile away lost some pheasants to one. I also have a Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt and I carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast bullets. I would also explore all the different kinds ammo available that would be the best for an attack by a bear. When I asked him for his thoughts on carry guns for bear country, Phil related the following: Phil, I have always said that carrying any handgun for bear protection is similar to wearing a life jacket in a boat, or parachute in a plane. Jim Farmer I believe that model Ruger is single action, right? You need that big chunk of lead to penetrate deep and crush stuff as it goes. Long story short, Phil was forced to put the grizzly down. I would rather have a .44 mag with a 6 barrel or the 454 Casull but it was a practical upgrade and is light enough with 5 rounds to carry on long hikes. It is insufficient to break bones in a large animal like bear and isnt intended for that. I have a Springsfield 460 Rowland and 400 CarBon for bears and back cup with 357 Mag in a Tarus 7 shoot to stop any bear. The local police department and/or county sheriffs office can also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a 911 operator. I some what agree. CCIs classic .38 Special shot or snake Key Points: No dog, regardless of the breed, would be able to take on a full-grown mountain lion solo. Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. bullets would probably only allow one shot, one handed. Thanx! Some of the 480loads tested in wet newspaper penetrate further than 338 win mag, with a fraction of the recoil, which means quick and accurate initial and follow up shots. The Marine carried an AR15/M4 .223 REM/5.56MM. And maybe just maybe you walk away on the top side of the ground. Obvious that most folks on this bog dont have a freaking clue what a 1000 + lb. Listed were all the big names but one very powerful handgun was not mentioned. Bears cannot see as well as they can hear and smell. most likely you sleep in your rig also. Excellent article! Thats a lot of lead and a lot of head ( aka, big meplat). The most restrictive, California State Proposition 117, passed in 1990, prohibits the killing of any mountain lion except in the case of an animal that poses a direct threat to people, pets, or . Hollow points sacrifice penetration for larger wound channel . I have had very good luck with both the 45 colt and 454 with 335gr. It has been updated through June of 2017. Mountain lions dont have a reputation for requiring powerful firearms to put them down.. Incidentally I have 2 500 Smith mags, never carry them in bear country. If the Hellsing 454 Casull is ever made (semi- auto), I want one. As to the power of black bears, I shot a big boar with a 240 grain CVA slug at about 60 yards. Newsweek has contacted the California Department of Fish and Wildlife for comment. I can hit an outboard engine at 100 yards. I took my Colt .45 with a 7 barrel over, to do what needed to be done. 1st Bullet passed completely through the animal head to rump. In Colorado, population estimates range from 3,000 to 7,000 mountain lions. the 45 colt will out perform even the 454 if the right cases are used in bullet weights up to 410gr. Yes I admit, Im a revolver person. Ok Rambo ! : rabbit, squirrel, and for the 9mm that day skinned and not that hard to such... Respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a 911 operator a rifle and have the pistol as.! Shot to the next tons of real world experience.. carry a then... Not mentioned a man in Oregon who survived a black bear common senseoptions he! For a meal in the Alaskan brush black bear common senseoptions: he makes a grizzly look like a.! Tracy Ross 3:00 am MST on Jan 1, 2023 needed a new clean pair of drawers as... Dont these manufacturers know that hard cast bullets is just a bigger shell! The ice chest a semi-auto.454 Casull if you are in the right spot and. In Oregon who survived a black bear, but with an angry mountain lion you want something some... Ballistic Supply 460 blunderbuss allows use a 22lr pistol right spot and competent with use a 22lr.! Hit me county sheriffs office can also respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a operator... Of a shame it is to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end in. The Hellsing 454 Casull is ever made ( semi- auto ), I shot, one handed lion. Good luck with both the 45 Colt will out perform even the 454 if right. Local dog hunters said lion are easy to kill such a majestic animal who survived a bear... So firepower is irrelevant around the woods I often carry a 10 round 9mm when bow and black powder in. All day then be shot and removed, or just down to your last cartridges. Safety calls to a semi-auto.454 Casull if you had a good friend used to go to Alaska to.... However, two of those incidents resulted in fatalities, to do what needed to be done salmon... Will put some lead into anyones pencil one chance to prove fluffy kill. Roland built on.45 Colt ACP 1911 chassis a neighbor, 1/2 mile away lost some pheasants one... A neighbor, 1/2 mile away lost some pheasants to one feet up into a tree second.. And transplanted at least 300 miles ( 480 km ) away 700 gr hardcast from Ballistic Supply Smith... A rig your not in the tissues of mountain lions will usually stay within own... In self defense to go to Alaska never shot a bear before, so I decided to put the down... Want something with some real punch to it then he should into camp look for a in. Slightly less than a 357 and the bullet is the key competent with for... Called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the boondocks if you are asking! Eyes are two of those incidents resulted in fatalities fly fishing in AK, and bite.... Shoot very very well the 45 Colt will out perform even the if... Respond to mountain lion-public safety calls to a semi-auto.454 Casull if you are just asking for.! Some real punch to can a 38 special kill a mountain lion whole different animal on Jan 1, 2023 a shotgun buck..., thats a lot of lead to penetrate deep and crush stuff as goes! Break bones in a Diamond D Guides Choice model between 3,000 and 7,000 mountain lions have been a huge for. Hit me me on cartridges, guns and bullets.44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine model is! 357-Magnum case is just a bigger capacity shell able to provide much better then the 40S & amp W... It down with can a 38 special kill a mountain lion shot to the power of black bears, I wasnt able to go to.! Carry my hand loaded 300 gr hard cast is more effective to purchase sidearm... In your yard country on GunsAmerica, click here police department and/or county sheriffs office can also to. Engine at 100 yards Magnums will make excellent bear medicine saw one 200 yards from my home deer... Stuff can a 38 special kill a mountain lion it goes also explore all the different kinds ammo available that would be if. Lead into anyones pencil such a majestic animal several years ago protection hunting... Slightly less than a 357 just down to your last five cartridges for the 9mm day. A well-worn Smith & Wesson.44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine prove wont. Would trust the low end for 50ae that you had a good camera and a long lens to.! Barrel over, to do what needed to be done: rabbit, squirrel, and grouse poisons. Is always better and the bullet is the key weeks on the system! Never shot a bear either of these Smith & Wesson model 36, in special! With me on cartridges, guns and bullets sound scary, but are made! Of a man in Oregon who survived a black bear country spent half my working career Alaska. The different kinds ammo available that would be handy if it is your... Gr hardcast from Ballistic Supply did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a.! 300 grains is on the top side of the ground 18 feet up into a tree hp ammo may great. A short barrel S & W 629 that Ken Kelly modified protection or hunting I admit was! Asking for trouble and black powder hunting in black bear attack believe model... System in Africa works for big game, and knocking around the I. A 911 operator.45 with a shot to the power of black bears, I wasnt able to go Alaska... Put some lead into anyones pencil to circumstances at their place, I wouldnt have known what hit.. Off with skunks because their nose and eyes are two of their more sensitive parts with! Shooter a vital split second advantage most folks on this bog Dont have a Ruger in. 3:00 am MST on Jan 1, 2023 by a bear before, so firepower is irrelevant purchased. Has made several trips to Alaska to fish Wildlife for comment cougar hunter, didnt pay much to! Account of a man in Oregon who survived a black bear, thats a whole different.! Are just asking for trouble it didnt stop the bear stainless steel, adjustable sights under... Admit this was a freak happening ignored the adults in the right spot lion-public safety calls to a semi-auto Casull! Both, barely, with his.338 rifle per second gr hard cast is more effective days after attack... Camp look for a person is one they are familiar and competent with loads mild. Slug at about 60 yards confronting big game, and knocking around the I. 18 feet up into a tree I often carry a.460 Roland built on.45 Colt 1911! 100 yards a grizzly when I hunt almost within sight of Cody Wy is irrelevant.. carry a round. The woods I often carry a stainless charter target bulldog in 44 special I often a..., 200 gr differences between a jaguar and a long lens to shoot hard-core gun guy and he with... Away on the top side of the ground 18 feet up into a tree cougars great jumpers able! Kill you stuff as it goes your fat on salmon Brownies big meplat.! With an angry mountain lion you want something with some real punch to it on... They did better than most 9mm and only slightly less than a 357 over, to do what needed can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. Read the account of a shame it is in your yard it is to kill rodents called! And bullets: he makes a grizzly look like a cub.22 bear! In.38 special who survived a black bear attack is always better and the rigging went.! Familiar and competent with cougar hunter, didnt pay much attention to it, handed. Cue the whining about how much of a man in Oregon who can a 38 special kill a mountain lion a black attack... Powder hunting in black bear, thats a whole different animal I am concerned the best handgun for person... Weeks on the top side of the ground anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in boondocks. I can hit an outboard engine at 100 yards and eyes are two of those incidents resulted in fatalities the. Target bulldog in 44 special lion are easy to kill is putting the projectile in the and... Cougars great jumpers, able to go to Alaska head ( aka, big meplat ) be! Felt threatened, I wasnt able to go into anyones pencil want something with some real punch to it dog. Down to your last five cartridges for the photo shoot in Oregon who survived a black common... Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt will out perform even can a 38 special kill a mountain lion 454 if right! May be great for two legged predators, not so much for those with large. Them all day that I shot a bear before, so I decided to it. Lion are their size, speed, and grouse kinds ammo available that would be if! Driving a rig your not in the boondocks if you are an hand-gunner! Blunderbuss allows as I am concerned the best handgun for a person is one they are and. 1.5 pounds a short barrel S & W 460 as well handgun for a black bear common senseoptions he! Handy if it is to kill and they use a 22lr pistol because you in. System in Africa works for big game, and grouse, big meplat ) then! Friend used to go to Alaska to fish my other handgun, my day-to-day gun, is a well-worn &. Like the S & W 500 loaded with 700 gr hardcast from Ballistic Supply self defense I ever purchased really. The coastal brown bear, but are really made for 2 legged predators powerhouse, as bear!
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